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World Champion Tiebreaks: A Counter-Intuitive Proposal.

@SSB2013GEM said ^

.Make them play an odd number of armageddon classical ,with slightly less time.3 games would be the best number.

I'm just wondering about how armageddon is usually played with minutes on the clock.

I think that if Black has more time, it may be easier for Black to draw than for White to win. Because Draw and Black win is a higher combined probability then White winning.

What do you think?

@SSB2013GEM said [^](/forum/redirect/post/qUwGnGZl) >.Make them play an odd number of armageddon classical ,with slightly less time.3 games would be the best number. I'm just wondering about how armageddon is usually played with minutes on the clock. I think that if Black has more time, it may be easier for Black to draw than for White to win. Because Draw and Black win is a higher combined probability then White winning. What do you think?

Licoin? Pause...!

Licoin? Pause...!

@RuyLopez1000

Let me say one simple thing- A COIN FLIP IS NOT SUPPOSED TO DECIDE THE OUTCOME OF AN ENTIRE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. As simple as it may seem, how can it still actually work? Are you just gonna throw a coin to determine who won?! That way we shouldn’t even do WC’s. Just toss a coin, and that’s it. Don’t care if it is just to determine the outcome. A coin is not to be used. That idea is even worse than TWPL or TPLV.

@RuyLopez1000 Let me say one simple thing- A COIN FLIP IS NOT SUPPOSED TO DECIDE THE OUTCOME OF AN ENTIRE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. As simple as it may seem, how can it still actually work? Are you just gonna throw a coin to determine who won?! That way we shouldn’t even do WC’s. Just toss a coin, and that’s it. Don’t care if it is just to determine the outcome. A coin is not to be used. That idea is even worse than TWPL or TPLV.

@PRIYAMVAD said ^

Licoin? Pause...!

What do you mean?

{79DB12D3-37FC-4E21-B025-7F3AA1098159}.png
lol

@PRIYAMVAD said [^](/forum/redirect/post/eDgtLP70) > > Licoin? Pause...! > > What do you mean? ![{79DB12D3-37FC-4E21-B025-7F3AA1098159}.png](https://image.lichess1.org/display?op=noop&path=78MYrdcHlfbV.png&sig=a8421da9e1934a7ea0f792f6251cc39930f8c30a) lol

@GCVM said ^

Licoin? Pause...!

What do you mean?

{79DB12D3-37FC-4E21-B025-7F3AA1098159}.png
lol

Right now we’re in a constantly changing and agitated discussion, and you are talking about a fictional coin?!

@GCVM said [^](/forum/redirect/post/HlC2zBiC) > > > Licoin? Pause...! > > > > What do you mean? > > ![{79DB12D3-37FC-4E21-B025-7F3AA1098159}.png](https://image.lichess1.org/display?op=noop&path=78MYrdcHlfbV.png&sig=a8421da9e1934a7ea0f792f6251cc39930f8c30a) > lol Right now we’re in a constantly changing and agitated discussion, and you are talking about a fictional coin?!

@PRIYAMVAD said ^

Right now we’re in a constantly changing and agitated discussion, and you are taking about a fictional coin?!

I didn't even read the blog or the discussion, i just saw this xD

@PRIYAMVAD said [^](/forum/redirect/post/yAcM2axe) > > Right now we’re in a constantly changing and agitated discussion, and you are taking about a fictional coin?! I didn't even read the blog or the discussion, i just saw this xD

Rapid and blitz tie breaks are bad but the proposed solutions are worse (they aren't chess or they give authority to engine play). Not every problem has an ideal solution (if it has a solution at all), but we can avoid terrible ones.

Rapid and blitz tie breaks are bad but the proposed solutions are worse (they aren't chess or they give authority to engine play). Not every problem has an ideal solution (if it has a solution at all), but we can avoid terrible ones.

@colin20g said ^

Rapid and blitz tie breaks are bad but the proposed solutions are worse (they aren't chess or they give authority to engine play). Not every problem has an ideal solution (if it has a solution at all), but we can avoid terrible ones.

I guess that’s right. We first started with TPLV, and then TWPL. Now, a coin flip was suggested, and I think that Rapid and Blitz tiebreaks, though flawed, are better than these crazy and awful methods. I was in favour for TPLV and TWPL combined, but @DaBassie and @ChesslyChessdriller made it clear that these are methods not to be relied on.

@colin20g said [^](/forum/redirect/post/3EYOrJAF) > Rapid and blitz tie breaks are bad but the proposed solutions are worse (they aren't chess or they give authority to engine play). Not every problem has an ideal solution (if it has a solution at all), but we can avoid terrible ones. I guess that’s right. We first started with TPLV, and then TWPL. Now, a coin flip was suggested, and I think that Rapid and Blitz tiebreaks, though flawed, are better than these crazy and awful methods. I was in favour for TPLV and TWPL combined, but @DaBassie and @ChesslyChessdriller made it clear that these are methods not to be relied on.

@PRIYAMVAD said ^

@RuyLopez1000

Let me say one simple thing- A COIN FLIP IS NOT SUPPOSED TO DECIDE THE OUTCOME OF AN ENTIRE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP.

Rapid and Blitz is also not supposed to decide the outcome of an entire Classical World Championship.

I believe it's unfair to have a disadvantage in the Classical World Championship if you are a weaker Rapid and Blitz player as the Classical World Championship is all about Classical chess. Not other formats.

Therefore if a player plays equally well as their opponent, then they will have an equal chance in the coin toss. 50%.

Imagine being the weaker Rapid and Blitz player with a 30% chance of winning tiebreaks as an example. Having a 50% chance instead of 30% would feel be more fair in recognition of your equal Classical performance against your opponent.

As simple as it may seem, how can it still actually work? Let’s say Player A is a bit better at attacking, but at the end, it ends as a tie. Are you just gonna throw a coin to determine who won?!

No. I mean we do a coin flip to determine the World Champion if the match score is tied. Not for individual games that end in a tie.

That way we shouldn’t even do WC’s. Just toss a coin, and that’s it. Don’t care if it is just to determine the outcome. A coin is not to be used. That idea is even worse than TWPL or TPLV.

This tiebreak incentivizes fighting chess because the contenders want to win the championship outright. Having a lead in the points is a greater advantage than a coin toss. The match still goes on. The coin flip is just for if the players have a tied score.

@PRIYAMVAD said [^](/forum/redirect/post/zUyJ62Om) > @RuyLopez1000 > > Let me say one simple thing- A COIN FLIP IS NOT SUPPOSED TO DECIDE THE OUTCOME OF AN ENTIRE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. Rapid and Blitz is also not supposed to decide the outcome of an entire Classical World Championship. I believe it's unfair to have a disadvantage in the Classical World Championship if you are a weaker Rapid and Blitz player as the Classical World Championship is all about Classical chess. Not other formats. Therefore if a player plays equally well as their opponent, then they will have an equal chance in the coin toss. 50%. Imagine being the weaker Rapid and Blitz player with a 30% chance of winning tiebreaks as an example. Having a 50% chance instead of 30% would feel be more fair in recognition of your equal Classical performance against your opponent. >As simple as it may seem, how can it still actually work? Let’s say Player A is a bit better at attacking, but at the end, it ends as a tie. Are you just gonna throw a coin to determine who won?! No. I mean we do a coin flip to determine the World Champion if the match score is tied. Not for individual games that end in a tie. >That way we shouldn’t even do WC’s. Just toss a coin, and that’s it. Don’t care if it is just to determine the outcome. A coin is not to be used. That idea is even worse than TWPL or TPLV. This tiebreak incentivizes fighting chess because the contenders want to win the championship outright. Having a lead in the points is a greater advantage than a coin toss. The match still goes on. The coin flip is just for if the players have a tied score.